The fear we mainlanders share

Fear cuts deeper than swords.

― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones

When I got my new passport, some friends who know I’m pro-liberty congratulated me: “Now you’re free!” I told them, a little bit sadly: ”Yes. As long as I have nothing to do with China.” In this post I want to share my fear, which I think many other mainlanders are also facing, no matter they’re still in mainland China or already immigrated. Even the second and third generation of Chinese immigrants have the fear, too.

First of all, I have to confess that my personality is a bit sensitive, for example, I would think I could be the next when I see someone got arrested just because of one post, even I don’t care about politics. So I beg your pardon if the content below sounds exaggerating and sentimental.

What am I afraid of?

I’m constantly afraid of two things: Chinese government and the people well educated by it. Chinese government may be the most powerful totalitarian regime in human history. With the help of advanced technology and weaponized legal system, it can locate and punish everyone who lives in mainland China. In China you have to use your phone number to register an account of any social platform and you have to show your ID card or passport when you buy a phone number. If you post something against the government, they can find you and your family very easily when they want. That’s why some people say: Be grateful if Weibo just delete your posts. They’re protecting you from the police.

The regime can get you even you have immigrated, unless you cut all the ties with mainland China. Almost every overseas mainlander has family, friends, or relatives in mainland China, and you want to visit them once a while. The regime can refuse to approve your visa if you dare say something publicly against it. They can arrest you when you’re in mainland China. They can also punish your family and friends as they want. Everything they do is legal in China and they’ll claim they’re just punishing criminals. They can make you a criminal in many ways, such as send a prostitute to your hotel room. In last 20 years they were getting better and better at weaponizng everything, including visa and legal system.

The regime is scary. But the people well educated by it are scarier. Some people are brainwashed by CCP or just want to benefit from CCP, you’re a “bad guy” if you criticize the Chinese government. Some people think they’re open minded and not brainwashed. They’d like to criticize the government. However, as I mentioned in my last post, they’re instilled lots of “red lines” which are against diversity and other western values. If you cross their red line, for example, say “I think Taiwan is not China”, you’re a “bad guy”, too.

How do we treat a bad guy? A bad guy is our enemy. We should punish and humiliate them in any possible way. They would report you to the regime. They would post your private message on Chinese social networks so other Chinese patriots could help doxxing you. The personal information of your family would be posted online. Your parents maybe get humiliated by the neighbors. And they think they’re doing the right thing to protect China.

I’m living in the West and I always avoid to meet other mainlanders unless they’re my friends or friends of my friends. I’m not a racist and don’t hate mainlanders. I’m just afraid that we may have different political opinions and they just report me. When I visited China, I was also reluctant to talk about politics with old friends. The nationalism was so strong in China since Xi Jinping became the president, I didn’t know if my friends are changed.

China doesn’t have strong religions like the West. Chinese people have been ruled by Confucianism for thousands years. In Confucianism family is as important as the religion. CCP knows it quite well, so it always links “family” to “China”, then to CCP. “China is always your family, no matter where you are living now”. Do you love your family? If yes, you have to love mainland China and CCP. This kind of education is very successful. Lots of overseas mainlanders will teach their children to love China, even their children are American citizens. They will also teach their children to stay silent about China, pass the fear to next generation.

Due to the fear, you can hardly hear any public voice against CCP from mainlanders. All you can see is an arrogant regime and many aggressive nationalists.

What can we do about it?

I don’t think we can do anything inside mainland China. CCP is still very powerful and controls everything in mainland China. But in the West we can do something to at least protect the mainlanders who are not agree with the regime. The West has tolerated CCP for too long. You can read this report from Hoover institution: https://www.hoover.org/research/chinas-influence-american-interests-promoting-constructive-vigilance . We shouldn’t allow CCP censor the West in any way. It’s okay to be pro-CCP, but their visa or residence should be revoked if they report their classmates who disagree with them. We shouldn’t tolerate the intolerance.

Another thing we can do is blocking the Chinese social media, WeChat and Weibo. Lots of overseas Chinese consume information in Chinese only on WeChat and Weibo. They don’t read local media. Because there is no journalism and diversity in mainland China, WeChat and Weibo are full of fake news, propaganda, and racism content. That’s why so many overseas Chinese are Trump supporters. They just keep being educated by WeChat and Weibo after living many years in the US. It’s a huge threat for the West. China can manipulate the election in the West by just using WeChat if you know how many overseas Chinese have the right to vote.

I think if we block the Chinese social media, the mainlanders then have to read more in English and leave their echo chamber. (More about how they get the information: https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-post-truth-publication-where-chinese-students-in-america-get-their-news) Someone may think it violates the right of free press, but as I mentioned earlier, we shouldn’t tolerate the intolerance, or else we won’t have free press anymore. By the way, it’s also reciprocal to China’s Internet policy. They banned almost every social media and newspapers from the West in the name of national security.

I also hope the West could force CCP open the Internet, but it’s implausible. CCP will lost its control at the moment people could see the world outside.

Please leave a comment if you have any other ideas. I would like to hear from you. And I hope some day in the near future, all mainlanders can live without fear.

This is so much better than the vast majority of what gets posted in this sub. Criticism but informed and intelligent criticism. I agree with the majority of what you say. I think the tricky part is in anything censorship related. This is a tough and loaded topic to deal with in the West. I don’t have a solution, just want to point out that this is a very tricky thing to discuss fairly, let alone actually implement in a way that is consistent with our values. It’s also an area that authoritarian regimes (not just China, Russia, Iran and Turkey as well) have gotten good at exploiting and using against us. Again, not sure what the solution is but we should be exploring what to do. Posts like this are exactly what we need to be discussing and thinking about. Great stuff!

Because there is no journalism and diversity in mainland China, WeChat and Weibo are full of fake news, propaganda, and racism content. That’s why so many overseas Chinese are Trump supporters.

I don’t understand. I would think that the propaganda would be against Trump since he has put tariffs on China. Don’t they see Trump as being a threat to China? Could you explain what you mean?

Always enjoy your post. Thank you

Ironically, Trump is the only US president with enough gumption to take on the CCP by tackling in one fell swoop the gamut of issues that previous US presidents have not had the balls to tackle, like Xinjiang, trade imbalances, Hong Kong, currency manipulation…

Wow this is really interesting. I lived in China for a year but was afraid to mention politics or talk about the CCP In a bad manner in front of locals. Not because I’m scared of the CCP but because I didn’t wanna make them uncomfortable.
So reading this answered my question.
What does an anti China Chinese think about? What’s his concerns?
But I was curious. What percentage of generation you think shares your same thoughts? I’m curious if internet and the ability to be more connected, even if the government is still censoring it, made the new generation at least made the new generation wake up a little.

Well written bro!

I understand your fear and annoyance of meeting another fucking ultranationalist. Some stupid fuck defends the GFW and that’s the most mind bogging shit to me. As for your fear to meet other overseas Chinese, maybe a secret sign can be created so you know the other person also wants to shove Xi and the CCP up Mao’s cold asshole.

Ten years ago, the internet in China was quite open.people can discuss whatever they want. But since xi became the president, everything is different. Xi was born in 1950s. That generation of people dont have chance to be well educated.so they tend to do something crazy.

OK mainlander here…

In China you have to use your phone number to register an account of any social platform and you have to show your ID card or passport when you buy a phone number. If you post something against the government, they can find you and your family very easily when they want. That’s why some people say: Be grateful if Weibo just delete your posts. They’re protecting you from the police.

Correct. Actually, I haven’t discussed any relatively sensitive political topics within the GFW a long time ago. One reason is that I cannot elaborate on my opinion well without being deleted. The other reason is, as you said, I don’t want to lie in the blacklist which may impair my future development in China. Actually, now I even begin to avoid talking about politics via video considering the rising of voice-detected tech.

They’d like to criticize the government. However, as I mentioned in my last post, they’re instilled lots of “red lines” which are against diversity and other western values. If you cross their red line, for example, say “I think Taiwan is not China”, you’re a “bad guy”, too. How do we treat a bad guy? A bad guy is our enemy. We should punish and humiliate them in any possible way. They would report you to the regime. They would post your private message on Chinese social networks so other Chinese patriots could help doing you. The personal information of your family would be posted online. Your parents maybe get humiliated by the neighbors. And they think they’re doing the right thing to protect China.

Well, I’m indeed a guy who insists on the unification between mainland and Taiwan but it’s just my personal opinion. Also, I won’t force Taiwan people to live in a one-party system. I’m not that sure whether some guys will report you just because of your different opinion on Taiwan issues. HK issue may be a different story, given the ongoing HK protest and CCP’s propaganda that HK’s five-demand is equal to HK independence, I do see there are several guys being hanged on Weibo because of their sympathy with protestors but some of my friends who keep posting pro-HK-protestor in Wechat moment and Facebook are still fine.

blocking the Chinese social media, WeChat and Weibo. Lots of overseas Chinese consume information in Chinese only on WeChat and Weibo. They don’t read local media. Because there is no journalism and diversity in mainland China, WeChat and Weibo are full of fake news, propaganda, and racism content. That’s why so many overseas Chinese are Trump supporters. They just keep being educated by WeChat and Weibo after living many years in the US. It’s a huge threat for the West. China can manipulate the election in the West by just using WeChat if you know how many overseas Chinese have the right to vote. I think if we block the Chinese social media, the mainlanders then have to read more in English and leave their echo chamber. (More about how they get the information: College Daily, the “Post-Truth” Publication Where Chinese Students in America Get Their News | The New Yorker) Someone may think it violates the right of free press, but as I mentioned earlier, we shouldn’t tolerate the intolerance, or else we won’t have free press anymore. By the way, it’s also reciprocal to China’s Internet policy. They banned almost every social media and newspapers from the West in the name of national security.

I don’t think it will work, both the policy and the effect. On policy, it’s nearly infeasible because if it does, it must come with other policies and is no different than sanctioning the whole PRC, which is just one step away from the cold war. Don’t you see the Russian official media, RT, is still popular on YouTube? On effect, it will just have a backfire and push most Chinese people to the CCP side because they will think it shows the double-standard and hypocrisy of the west and a repeat of the century of humiliation.

Also, it makes no sense that they will read more English news. Not to mention their poor English skills, lots of my friends keep reading western media from the middle schools or high schools to improve their English, but by observation,​ I won’t say they have changed their minds a lot. BTW there are already lots of free-world-back Chinese press such as BBC Chinese, VOA, and Free Asia, not to mention lots of anti-ccp self-medias. Some of the so-called free China media such as the FLG-back ones, ironically have a backfire because lots of mainlanders think FLG is too stupid to believe (sorry to say that). They’re just not effective as you may think.


TBH I don’t think CCP will collapse in this century unless some HUGE things happen (huge like WWIII). Believe it or not, the endorsement of CCP from China inside in this decade is not decreasing, if not increasing, and I forecast​ the domestic support will still remain a not-bad level in the foreseeable future.

Wow man. What a great post. I’m gonna save this and show it to my other American friends so they can understand from a Chinese perspective how it is there. My wife is like you in her views - she’s fiercely independent and despises the CCP for what they’ve done to China and her family by warping their minds. China’s future as a free people relies on folks like you.

Great Post. But I would have to disagree with banning WeChat and Weibo. It would just play into the hand of China and authoritarianism since they can just point at the US and say “See they don’t believe in free speech after all!”. Also I don’t think that overseas Chinese vote in significant numbers to change anything even if many are brainwashed. I am the son of overseas Chinese immigrants and I can say say that most of their children don’t hold the same views of their parents.

Woo, truth like a raging fire, my man

Thank for shedding light, very interesting and honest perspective. My friends’s wife is from the mainland, she has immigrated to the US and she refuses to read non Chinese publications which I find ultra bizarre… now I get it.

The Chinese economy probably has to get a lot worse before the average Chinese will even consider saying something anti CCP. It’s going to get a lot worse before it gets better

I keep hearing how popular trump is with overseas Chinese in America on this subreddit but that’s not been my personal experience.

My parents are part of the Chinese diaspora and Trump was so poorly regarded by my mom’s Chinese friends (all first gen) that many voted for the first time in 2016, including my mom. Most of her friends should vote Republican, as they are high income earners working for BigPharm who live in a conservative state. Plus, many lean socially conservative. I have assumed it’s mostly due to Trump’s anti-immigration rhetoric and the perception that the Republican Party is “racist” (I was told
that during the Hainan spy plane incident, and I found myself, a registered democrat, trying to defend the Republican Party lol).

Now, my parents’ friends are in their 50s and 60s who came to America in the 90s. This is the Tiananmen generation, most came for graduate school and attended elite universities in China so I’m aware that the demographic of mainlanders have changed considerably since then. So, are most first generation mainlanders more republican/trump leaning these days? As generation 1.5 who live in a very white stare, I haven’t had much contact with Chinese of any stripe except for my family.

Haha funny thing is she is completely English proficient (reading and writing) but, yet she still refuses. She’s very well educated and in my opinion very very smart. However, the ccp brainwashing powers are very strong, I presume that’s the reason why she steers clear of non Chinese publications/media.

I just took a look at that New Yorker article. As a mainlander the amount of bullshit nationalistic rhetoric that College Daily propagates infuriates me. “Of CuOrSE OnLY Maoland Is Collectivist HeRo No America Individualism bad”.

Sadly with freedom of press comes the possibility of the spread of misinformation and propaganda. The correct way to prevent people from getting brainwashed by them is through education. Educated people will not buy the lies of the CCP. Moreover, many overseas Chinese get their news from Weibo because they can’t read English, which can also be solved by education.

Interesting post. I have read a lot about modern China, but I have not yet been there. It seems like a tech dystopia where the government openly uses all technology to spy on people and goes after them.

In the US we know we are spied on but the government can’t use anything against us because the information was gathered illegally. The police have to get their own warrant from a judge, monitor your phone/computer/etc, and then when they have evidence you can be arrested.

It’s pretty scary the environment the CCP has created and it’s quickly infecting the world.

I’d like to help stop infiltration in the US and people getting reported to the CCP for speaking about politics outside of China, but I just don’t know how I would do it. I’m just a white dude, and I don’t really have connections to China.

I don’t know if banning Chinese social media is the best way to go… but there should be some way to show Chinese people in the west other news sources.

It’s pretty easy to get some phone cards without your personal information in black markets, I registered basically all of my accounts in mainland with them to avoid the censorship